pwb [09.05.06 09:52 AM]

Why on earth can't Jabber gain more traction? It should be the foundation for all new chat and VOIP services.

Adam Fisk [09.05.06 12:16 PM]

I fully support Jabber/XMPP as an important piece of the emerging next-generation protocol stack. I disagree regarding its use for VoIP, however. Google's Jingle implementation basically hacked Jabber/XMPP to make VoIP work, and they're now pushing it through the standards committees. Not the best way to do things, to say the least. This was basically because they had more in house Jabber expertise than SIP expertise. SIP, however, is designed as a generalized protocol for session establishment, ideal for VoIP. Jabber is designed for messaging and presense, a job it does better than SIP's "SIMPLE" extensions for presence.

That said, I fully agree that Jabber should, and I think will, gain more traction, but particularly as a presense and messaging platform, leaving VoIP to the better-suited SIP family of protocols. I fully believe that presence coupled with locality will be a vital part of the next generation of applications and that Jabber/XMPP will become a standard protoocol that most clients and servers implement.

util21.ro Stefan [09.06.06 03:43 AM]

I like the idea of google using Jabber technology for their voIP google chat, even if the only reason may be that there would be someone out there to beat yahoo and skype. About the implementation of this technology into the web servers and other protocol stuff... this is for the guys that really are into it.

Helmar [10.15.06 11:57 PM]

pwb asked: "Why on earth can't Jabber gain more traction? It should be the foundation for all new chat and VOIP services."

My personal 0.02: because simply ALL Jabber clients I have tested so far __SUCK__. Some less (ie Psi, Neos, Pandion), some more (ie gaim, Miranda, Exodus). It's as if they've been developed by people who aren't really using Instant Messaging, because otherwise they'd for instance offer a user-friendliness or chat log history as superb as Sonork (which had its own protocol). This isn't a rant - I can point out numerous user-interface and usability disasters in any of them.

I would really welcome a modern-looking, coherent and standard-compliant client that is being developed in conjunction with user-interface and usability experts and not just by developers, who usually don't care much about such things - as shown in the currently available Jabber clients.

The other reason may be that 'Jabber' itself is perhaps run by a committee instead of people who are on the cutting edge - resulting in stale protocols and therefore stale applications. Example: Sonork had a reply-mode in 2001 already (by clicking on a message in the history and sending yours via Ctrl-R, those two messages would be linked into a conversation thread) - a feature that would eliminate a lot of misunderstanding while chatting, and also allow for a structured dialog in an otherwise loose chat environment.

Another reason perhaps is that Jabber Inc doesn't really support those companies who are promoting and pushing XMPP into the mainstream. Qunu (disclosure: I'm a partner in the company) is a good example. We could do with a better server and a better MUC - Jinc has both and also knows what we're running on. A little help would go a long way in this particular case.

So, when you put it all together: outdated protocols, sub-standard client software and a company who doesn't seem to care much about those who are actively promoting Jabber/XMPP, then you have a recipe for disaster. Add to that a distinct 'visibility gap' in Jinc's marketing (read: overall 'sexiness' and presence in the eye of the Internet user) and you have the answer why it is and probably will remain on the fringe for a very long time.

Finally, at Qunu we're battling every day with Jabber clients that aren't supporting the standards or work in weird and illogical ways. So even if we provide a kick-ass service, we're still reliant on the Jabber clients out there - and truth be told, they're not exactly making it easy for us, read: Experts, who want to sign onto Qunu and provide help through their Jabber IM.

See, it's all connected, and one thing leads to another which leads to another, which continues to keep Jabber in relative obscurity. Remedy: well, things have to be tackled on various levels, but this implies that those who are causing this issue are aware of it in the first place. Right now, I feel, they aren't, and until they become aware of it, nothing will change.