Mon

Apr 23
2007

Nat Torkington

Nat Torkington

Open Source Groupware/Calendaring?

Sysadmin John Goerzen posted a list of events he was thinking of attending. I sent him mail explaining that we were trying to expand the sysadmin content at OSCON and asked him what he'd like to see. One item caught my eye: Groupware/calendaring solutions. This has been a big hurting point in free software for a while."

I immediately thought of Hula from Novell, which was going to attack this very space. However, Hula has rather abruptly been discontinued (the "project"'s homepage is an FAQ for the sale of a Novell product to another company). Mozilla have Sunbird, but it's still early days. Chandler isn't a contender. O'Reilly is using Zimbra for email but not for wider scheduling., and the conferences group throws a lot of Google Docs around in lieu of file-sharing Word files. There are piles of Zope and PHP tools, but what's actually used for calendaring and groupware in the real world? Leave a comment and tell me what your company uses ....


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Comments: 35

  Justin Mason [04.23.07 04:18 AM]

Hula's dead? that's a shame. Looks like jwz was right :(

  Dave [04.23.07 04:23 AM]

Until there is something as good as Outlook 2007 for mail, calendar, busy schedules, task lists (including the new categorization / tagging that they added in 2007) and Exchange server - I would never consider dropping my hosted Exchange account. Worth every penny, allows my wife and I to coordinate the family's schedules and the new task features make it very, very easy to apply the whole Getting Things Done philosophy in my life.

So, while I would love to support an open source project for this, there just isn't anything that's remotely close to Microsoft's offering. And I've been searching for years.

I've recently started thinking that perhaps this just isn't an "itch" that matters to open source developers. Most probably didn't start out by needing or having to use Exchange / Outlook, so they don't grok the benefits of it. And since MS doesn't make a linux client, they aren't going to touch it with a 10 foot pole, and thus learn why the software is so powerful. In the meantime, a lot of half-assed solutions have come around, namely with Google / GCal / GMail and Greasemonkey hacks - which while they might "work" they just aren't comparable. (yet)

  Jesse Vincent [04.23.07 05:18 AM]

The sad fact of it is that we gave up and started to use Google Calendar for Best Practical. It gives me hives. I don't want Google to own our calendar data, but the opensource solutions all suck. I'm holding out some hope for Apple's iCal Server.

  Marcus [04.23.07 05:37 AM]

The Enterprise I work for is stuck on Lotus Notes. I guess it's a good thing--people send less email and schedule fewer meetings just to avoid using Notes.

  atom prober [04.23.07 05:37 AM]

We use iCalendars in a WebDAV/Subversion directory (on Apache) for instrument scheduling and meetings. We use phpicalendar for web-based display. Most people use Mozilla Sunbird to update the calendar. It isn't bad & 0.5 will be even better (with automatic periodic checks of online calendars). The major limitation of 0.3 is that you must remember to manually reload calendars before updating a calendar (or you get data loss & must restore a past revision from SVN).

  Tyrone Miles [04.23.07 05:59 AM]

I use and sell Desknow for my email and groupware.


www.desknow.com


Its easy to use, scalable, fast and easy to manage.


They have a free and paid version. I have used it for almost 5 years and sell it to my customers. I am very impressed with the ease of use and administration.


Runs on any OS that can support Java runtime, Apache, tomcat (Which are preset up with the product so you don't have to manage an Apache set up) and can run an SQL server (MySQL, postgress or MS SQL) So almost every OS on the market including Windows, Linux, BSD, MAC OS, Solaris etc.


It has the following features:


Fully featured mail server


Advanced antispam technologies, antivirus


Integration and content filtering


Dynamic webmail interface


Digital email encryption and signing


Document management, WebDev file sharing


Advanced calendaring with meeting planning, free/busy search, shared calendars, task lists, resource booking, iCal publishing (Mozilla Sunbird, Apple iCal)


Outlook connector to integrate personal and group calendars, tasks, contacts


SyncML synchronization with Palm, PocketPC, BlackBerry and most mobile phones


Secure Jabber instant messaging with integrated web client


Automatic authentication and account import with Active Directory and LDAP servers


Plus built in OS independent clustering, build in backup scheduling, can link with most major Windows, Unix and Linux anti virus software.


All these features and more in a piece of software that takes up less then 50 MB on your server for it's self (VERY low over head)


Everyone should check it out. I am sure they will be pleased with the quality of the software, ease of use, support and documentation.

  Paul Cooper [04.23.07 06:29 AM]

We use Zimbra for email and scheduling and have been really happy - the first solution to hit every need we had. We use for our diaries and to track 3 rooms and other resources.

We had previously used Webdav shared iCalendar files and Sunbird, but it was all a bit of a hack and just lacked polish and integration, something Zimbra has in spades.

Particular highlights of Zimbra;

  • Integrates with Outlook / Exchange scheduling - so others can invite, and you can accept / decline, etc, and vice versa
  • The mobile edition (which isn't open source) does OTA sync with compatible devices
  • great search
  • iSync integration for OS X works well (there is also an Outlook connector we don't use Windows so have never used it)
  • admin and upgrades has so far been a breeze

Particular issues;

  • Lack of integration with Linux desktop (Evolution connector is in the works - but would like more general solution, e.g. SyncML and OpenSync)
  • It would be useful (esp. for small orgs) to be able to autoshare calendars rather than have to explicitly invite each person
  • Complaint from many smaller business that Zimbra sort of assume that if you're less than 25 users you'll use a hosted version and so there is no way to buy the enterprise features in smaller chunks (e.g. iSync integration comes with Network edition but there isn't anyway of licencing 3 iSync connectors).

Other then Zimbra, if I were looking now, I'd want to try out Scalix - this is another previously proprietary system that's gone open source, but it looks pretty good (there's a Evolution connector already).

Another I've heard of but never had a chance to even look at is postpath which claims to be a drop in replacement for exchange - I believe they've reverse engineered both Outlook MAPI and the Exchange protocol. I'm not sure of the open source credentials but I think they've used the Zimbra UI for their webclient.

Other than that I have toyed with OpenXchange which had a couple of issues. First was that the open-source edition lacked all of the sys admin tools of the proprietary version, so was quite a pain to deal with, even if you're already familiar with LDAP, Postfix, Cyrus, etc. Second their Outlook connector was very frustrating, often creating duplicate events in Outlook, or crashing and requiring a whole new user profile to be created, etc, etc. Bear in mind this was 12-18 months ago so maybe they've fixed it by now

While, in the past, there were just no open-source options for anyone looking at groupware I would say that now there is an increasing abundance of choice. Whether they stack up feature for feature with Exchange I wouldn't know (but we should all know that's never the measure as to whether something is useful or suitable).

Also note that Novell sold NetMail and Hula to Messaging Architects who plan to carry on (open) development. Plus there has also been a fork of the Hula codebase called Bongo. No idea how any of this will shake out. It could be the death rattle or the rebirth, we'll have to wait and see

  Maurene Caplan Grey [04.23.07 07:38 AM]

Nat -- So glad to hear that OSCON may include a session on open source messaging/groupware. To that point, you'll be interested in reading http://blogs.zdnet.com/ecommunity/?p=105 -- some of which will be familiar to you :). The post got over 3K page views in the first week of publication -- an indicator of enterprise interest.

Insofar as conferences, INBOX 2007 includes sessions on open source messaging and collaboration http://www.inboxevent.com/conference/conferencegrid.php.

  JT [04.23.07 08:26 AM]

I have been using www.egroupware.org for a year or two. It provides a syncML feature to sync with cell phones and has a Outlook sync feature (possibly, third party, I do not use Outlook sync). It is a tad on the geeky side, but it is feature reach, stable, and open source.

  Corey Burger [04.23.07 08:37 AM]

Hula is not dead! Merely forked: http://www.bongo-project.org/Main_Page

  Peter John Hill [04.23.07 11:51 AM]

I have big problems with the Exchange metaphor of calendaring. It drives me crazy that events are sent only as mail messages and if I happen to accidentally delete an invite, it is gone forever. I much prefer having my calendar exist in some database that is separate from my email inbox. I don't mind getting notifications of new meetings in my inbox.

Oracle Calendar is not completely horrible. I am curious as to what Apple 10.5 server will offer related to calendar/scheduling support.

Another thing about Exchange is the whole database issue. I am a big fan of imap. I want to be able to leverage centralized backups of the email server and not worry about information living solely on my machine. If my laptop dies or gets stolen, I want it to be as simple as possible to recover and get back to work.

YMMV

  andy [04.23.07 01:11 PM]

Nat,
What does O'Reilly use for calendaring?

  Bob Amen [04.23.07 01:46 PM]

"O'Reilly is using Zimbra for email but not for wider scheduling"

Hey wait a minute! We are using Zimbra for scheduling. It is taking a little while to catch on but we are encouraging everyone in the company to use it for all schedules. We were holding back until we got the Cambridge office set up but now that that's done...

  Alexander Mikhalev [04.23.07 02:50 PM]

I checked recently most opensource/linux/ calendaring solutions in my attempt to move from MS exchange - we only use exchange as a public diary calendar. We moved to scalix, as most stable out of this all playground stuff, but my conclusion - there is no equivalent product to MS outlook exchange. Once you started to use MS outlook - your stuck with exchange.
Hula - not a project. Dead.
Zimbra - slow, weird licensing policy. Require outlook plugin. Unstable plugin. Can't syncrhonize with ldap - to be written..
Egroupware/openexchange/horde -imp - i didn't find it useful. I was looking for similar look and feel for users as outlook calendar provide. Unfortunately my users voted against these or simular products.
Kerio Mailserver - same issues as Zimbra.
Communigate Pro - high price, require plugin for outlook, plugin was very unstable when I tried to migrate to it 2 years ago. Now it might be better but I had a bad feeling...
Currently I migrated to Scalix server, because they provide 25 premium users for free - so you can use outlook plugin. We are only 16 people company so it looked like we found a proper solution. Scalix Outlook plugin in my tests was more stable that zimbra/funabol/cgp. So we asked for the price for the support for 1 year. I would not provide quote here, but I could buy windows SBS 2003 for the same price and have MS support on it.
Major issues so far - all this java/tomcat require a lot of memory on server, and I mean really a lot. So you have to have a decent hardwire. Our exchange 2000 was working on dual p3 for 7 years.
Second. Although outlook plugin seems so good on test computer and on paper - it's absolute nightmare when it comes to real word computers. Especially if you have number of laptops with top managers and execs, who install their own software. Like mobile phonebook synchonization software, also written as outlook plugins - some sagem phone plugin. Hence next major issue - compatibility between real world outlook plugins. Currently, I have an issue with Nortel callpilot desktop plugin and scalix plugin. I can't ununstall or disable either of then on this comp and I have no clue how to handle this issue.
Nobody tests these plugins for different encodings in one mailbox - we have chineese, korean and japanise in one mailbox. So this mailbox fills server log and my spare time :)
I was a major linux advocate for the company and only force which moved everything from windows to linux. I spent about 4 months of testing and trying different solutions. Finally, we migrated. I think it wasn't worth it. I didn't find any solution in the linux world which would satisfy the needs and budget of the small organization less then 20 employees and be stable enough to be usable outside testing environment.
PS. I didn't check lotus/novell -it's too proprietary and I do not see any reason to migrate to it.

  Tolmos [04.23.07 03:10 PM]

VenÌa usando Google docs y Google Calendar, hasta que vi esto:

Disclaimer Google: Privacy Policy (aviso legal y polÌtica de privacidad)

No creo que muchos usuarios se paren a leer los avisos legales de los productos de SW que se descargan en su ordenador o bien los avisos legales de los portales que visitan, pero sin ir m·s lejos cu·ntos bloggers copian enlaces o contenidos de otros "sites" usando el derecho de cita sin haberse leÌdo previamente el (c)?

Hay algunos avisos legales, que son infumables, con cientos de p·ginas y enlaces que al final no terminan m·s que confundiendo al usuario.

DespuÈs de leer varias veces este p·rrafo de uno de los avisos legales de Google, me genera algunas dudas (que marco en MAY⁄SCULA) acerca del mismo, de forma particular en lo relacionado con su PolÌtica de Privacidad de Google Pack.

Cito:"2. POLÕTICA DE PRIVACIDAD
La protecciÛn de la privacidad de los usuarios es muy importante para Google y para los Terceros. Como condiciÛn para descargar y utilizar el Software, el usuario debe aceptar los tÈrminos de la PolÌtica de privacidad de Google Pack, descritos en http://pack.google.com/intl/es/policy_info.html?hl=es&gl=es. Estos tÈrminos se pueden actualizar en cualquier momento y sin previo aviso. (POR LO MENOS QUE ENVÕEN UN E-MAIL INFORMANDO DE DICHO CAMBIO) La informaciÛn recopilada por Google o por Terceros (QU… TERCEROS?) relativa al uso del Software puede ser almacenada y procesada en Estados Unidos y otros paÌses en los que Google, sus agentes, los Terceros o sus agentes tengan oficinas (TOTALMENTE ABIERTO A CUALQUIER PARTE DEL PLANETA, POR LO QUE QUEDA INDETERMINADO) Por tanto, al utilizar el Software, el usuario consiente cualquier transferencia de dicha informaciÛn fuera de su paÌs.(PERO NO SABEMOS EN CU¡L)

El usuario reconoce y acepta que Google o los Terceros puedan acceder a su informaciÛn de cuenta, conservarla y revelarla, si asÌ se les exige judicialmente o si se considera de buena fe que el acceso, la conservaciÛn o la revelaciÛn son razonablemente necesarios para: (a) cumplir cualquier ley, normativa, procedimiento legal o peticiÛn gubernamental aplicable; (b) garantizar el cumplimiento de estos TÈrminos y condiciones, incluida la investigaciÛn de violaciones potenciales de los mismos; (c) detectar, prevenir o gestionar de cualquier otra forma fraudes o problemas tÈcnicos o de seguridad (incluido, sin limitaciÛn, el filtrado de spam); (d) responder a las peticiones de asistencia de los usuarios; o bien, (e) proteger los derechos, la propiedad o la seguridad de Google y de sus usuarios, la de los Terceros y sus usuarios, y la del p˙blico. Ni Google ni los Terceros ser·n legalmente responsables de la ejecuciÛn o no de los derechos descritos en estos TÈrminos y condiciones. (Y NOS VENIMOS QUEJANDO DEL ART. 17 bis?)


Y cito parte del enlace que lleva a la polÌtica de privacidad: "Algunos productos de Google que puedes instalar con Google Pack se pueden configurar para que envÌen a Google informaciÛn sobre los sitios web que visitas u otros datos. (QU… OTROS DATOS?) Estos productos vienen configurados con estas funciones desactivadas hasta que decides habilitarlas, y te haremos saber las consecuencias de activarlas antes de hacerlo."

  Sam Sethi [04.23.07 03:39 PM]

Hi Nat

Following two recent announcements I have changed from Outlook to Thunderbird 2 because it natively supports GMail. Equally the new SunBird app now supports Google Cal.

But the biggie is the recent announcement of GData so that I can programmatically integrate with the data sources.

Finally the collaborative nature makes it very useful in a work environment.

Hope it helps

  Rob Coup [04.23.07 03:57 PM]

Hi Nat,

Another groupware product brought up the other day on the NZLUG list was Scalix. While its not completely open source (the underlying platform and the mobile client are, and other parts are free-as-in-beer), they do seem to be moving in that direction and it'll be interesting to see what comes out of it.

  graylion [04.23.07 04:16 PM]

I am using egroupware and am quite happy with it. and the calendar is database based.

  Andy Wong [04.23.07 07:49 PM]

The summary made by Alexander Mikhalev is pretty interesting. I just have a look at eGroup, and think this might be the cause of the problems associated with many Open Source/Linux groupware or calendar programs. The philosophy of eGroup:
* Free Software
* Open Source

What philosophy?!

Do we users care? We just want proper functions and UI designs. The users are not keen to these technical stuffs.

Apparently, we still have to live with MS Outlook/Exchange provided by the evil big brother, before the open source/linux developers can come up with philosophy of developing applications for business users.

  graylion [04.24.07 03:02 AM]

"Egroupware/openexchange/horde -imp - i didn't find it useful. I was looking for similar look and feel for users as outlook calendar provide. Unfortunately my users voted against these or simular products."

that is the real rub. if you let users vote they will always vote to not learn something new. it is perpetuating the strangehold M$ has. This atttitude also tend to preclude moves to OOO.

  Zoran Kovacevic [04.24.07 03:43 AM]

We (=Func.) are currently developing Webical. It is a Java webapp that allows one to view and edit multiple iCalendars online.

It is implemented with a plugin framework. For backend persistence we now have a iCalendar on WebDAV implementation (CalDAV should be easy too).

Furthermore, the user interface is built using progressive enhancement. Mobile/old browser use the accessible interface, desktop/modern clients can use the AJAXy interface.

It is a GPL project, and we are planning a beta real soon now.

For the time being, check out http://www.webical.org and the demo.

  Alexander Mikhalev [04.24.07 04:29 AM]

to graylion: I limit users options for voting, but in the end of the day they will be using it not sysadmins or IT geeks. If they do not want to fill 15 fields for one appointment it's there choice.
Web calendar similar to google calendar would do the trick, but I have not found anything available on the market. Initial idea was even simpler than scalix/zimbra - we though, we will use web based calendar for our public diary and postfix/dovecot for mail. We didn't find anything and our outsource partner couldn't come up with usable webcalendar. You can find plenty of calendars for collaboration on the web, but they do not aim at the end-user, most of them aim at developers or similar community geeks.

  Nigel Cannings [04.24.07 07:07 AM]

Of course anyone really interested in on-line collaboration would be (and is) using MailSpaces (which we write, of course). Automatic e-mail collaboration, linked into wiki and rss, automatic tagging of relevant themes, dates, people and URLs.

Full APP publishing, and RSS out of just about everything, from new discussions to new tags.

Automatic newsletters, summarised from content.

The list goes on, naturally.

Because people are so reluctant to collaborate deeply in the enterprise, there is the Yahoo! groups killing jiglu.com, bringing ingrated e-mail, wiki and RSS, combined with the power of automatic contextual linking and tagging, to the consumer.

Seriously, collaboration is one of those things that people talk about as a good thing, but abandon because it is (apparently) too hard to do, or worse, because they are afraid that by sharing information their ideas will be stolen, or their weaknesses exposed. And the larger the company, the worse it gets. Dilbert is only funny because it is so on the mark

Calendaring and scheduling is a form of collaboration, but only scratches the surface...

  Nate [04.24.07 08:40 AM]

Sorry, but what does "Chandler is not a contender" mean? That assertion is devoid of info -- if you have criticisms of Chandler, what exactly are they?

  Dave [04.24.07 09:07 AM]

Novell dropping out of Hula was more, I suspect, geared to putting their money behind their Groupwise product.
We're Groupwise, only for a couple of years, but as a previous exchange user its a breath of fresh air not to have to continuously nag users to keep their mailboxes trimmed. Cross-platform, less demanding on the server (yes it only needs one server for the whole shebang vs Exchange's one server per component) and the client, lower cost of ownership, plays well with openoffice, etc etc.
Whether the next version (Bonsai) will have all the promised bells and whistles from day 1 remains to be seen, but there are alternatives to Exchange

  Muru [04.25.07 01:13 AM]

In 2001, I worked for an IT services company which aimed to deliver opensource solutions to the business users. Calendaring/Scheduling was high in demand, but very low in supply. It is a shame to see that even after 6 years not much has come out yet. I guess it never will... is the battle for calendaring tacitly being accepted as lost ?

  Hans-Peter Bruns [04.25.07 01:14 AM]

Hi Nat

We are using Open-Xchange, which is quite popular here in Germany. Might not
in the US. We are a telesales company with 100 employees that went completely
from Windows to Linux some three years ago.

90 telesales agents using just email with Thunderbird on opensuse 10 through
IMAP. The rest is using all Open-Xchange features mail, calendering, talks,
project management and document sharing. Just works.

  Andy [04.25.07 06:38 AM]

We've developed an open source groupware solution (premiering commercially in a month or two) called Meldware. It integrates with Mozilla's Lightning plugin as well as provides a webmail/webcal. Moreover by the final release it will integrate with both Evolution and Outlook as well. Instead of forcing users to switch clients for robust groupware (ala Zimbra) our strategy is to support existing popular clients. Unlike client-based solutions (based on iCal) we support WCAP which allows us to provide robust calendar access/freebusy. We'll be presenting this weekend at Linuxfest Northwest as well as various places around the world in the coming months. (http://www.buni.org/mediawiki/index.php/LUG_TOUR_2007)

We tried to get in to some of the O'Reilly conferences, but they seem to be more in the "already hit us in the head" version of "emerging" and "radar" ;-).

  Tonni [04.28.07 07:03 AM]

Andy and the rest: For us our custom OpenLDAP 2.3.35 server and our delta-syncrepl tree (replicated to 3 slaves) is paramount, anything that doesn't work with it is immediately ruled out. Next, our Postfix 2.4 smtp server with lots of custom stuff, ditto. Lastly our Courier authlib/IMAP server ditto. Then there are other things that have to integrate, like our Samba 2.0.24 PDC, our LTSP 4 gdm clients, all our specialised pam stuff ditto.

I think I'm fighting a losing battle here.

--Tonni

  Abdelkrim Boujraf [05.18.07 10:05 AM]

Nat, there is no competitor for Outlook/Exchange based on Java.

But OBM http://obmpro.aliasource.fr, a French solution, is growing more and more. It's based on PHP.

Unfortunately for those tools, many governements don't accept PHP as a language used for critical usage.


Abdelkrim

  shayne [05.19.07 09:58 PM]

With due respect Nate, the idea behind Chandlers great, but when is something usable and stable going to appear.

Chandler may well one day be a useful thing, but for now its a rude looking interface with lots of test cases , no documentation, and Ive never managed to get it to work. Its a big todo list and its been that way forever.

Dont feel bummed out, its 'competion' is Aethera, but man... That thing *almost* works but not quite, and seemingly hasnt been worked on in 2 or more years. I couldnt in all honesty deploy it to a client. I tried... what an embarassment.

egroupware with egwsync outlook adapter works pretty well! But yeah... I have reservations. Testing it now.

Citadel would be my personal fave, but it really sorely needs an outlook adapter to be useful to most people, and its a little eccentric. But thats ok. I like eccentric.

Really I just wish Novel would open source groupwise, because seriously , that bad boy owns exchange hands down.

  shayne [05.19.07 11:47 PM]

Oh woo.

I just wrote a script that parses @todo's from phpdoc, drops them into egroupware via xmlrpclib and then they magikally appear in outlook's todo list. my boss is probably going to think Im organised now.

  Eric Ross [06.01.07 08:17 AM]

I spent about 9 months researching groupware packages (open-source and proprietary) to merge our Groupwise 5.5 on Netware 5 (internal email, calendaring) and Qmail POP3 on Linux (Pegasus Mail client). The purpose of this was to have PDA access to email and calendaring. We have about 60 users and 8 Palm Treo 700p users.

I was trying to avoid using Outlook as the client, since we didn't use MS Office. I looked at Groupwise 7 (couldn't get it working on Linux), Exchange (expensive, too proprietary, too much security concerns, etc.), Zimbra (too expensive for commercial version), eGroupware (buggy), OpenGroupware (couldn't get installed), Citadel (no PDA syncing), Horde (difficult install, buggy), Scalix (never tested), Gordano (never tested, expensive), Desknow (never tested), and several others.

We ended up settling on Group-Office (group-office.com), which is a PHP groupware package that provides an IMAP web client, calendaring (private and shared), tasks, and a bunch of other modules. We run this on our main Linux file server using Apache2 with a Dovecot IMAP server and use it for calendaring and tasks only. We didn't need a dedicated email server because the server overhead is low.

WinXP desktops run Mozilla Thunderbird for email. The Palmsync plugin is used to sync Thunderbird address books for the Treo users. This is the only wired syncing required. While the plugin isn't ideal, I'm hoping Thunderbird will eventually evolve to have a SyncML client. Treos use ChatterEmail for their IMAP client and Synthesis SyncML for wireless calendar and task syncing.

Group-Office has a free Community Edition (no PDA syncing) and a Professional Edition (about $250 and $50/mo. for support).

The only cons are:
- The company is Netherlands-based and the timezone difference can be tough for US/Canadian users. However, support has been excellent when we needed it.
- Any browser-based application is going to be a little slower than a desktop client. On the plus side, you can easily access the calendar from anywhere.

We've been running this since Nov. 2006 and been pretty happy with everything. The overall cost of everything was a fraction of the proprietary ones.

  Jan schrewe [08.01.07 05:14 AM]

You should have a look at scalix. It's not completely OpenSource but can be used as an exchange drop in.

We use mainly the Webfrontend which works great and fast.

  Jan schrewe [08.01.07 05:15 AM]

You should have a look at scalix. It's not completely OpenSource but can be used as an exchange drop in.

We use mainly the Webfrontend which works great and fast.

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