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VistA scenarios, and other controversies at the Open Source health care trackThe history and accomplishments attributed to VistA, the Veterans Administration's core administrative software, mark it as one of the most impressive software projects in history. Still, lots of smart people in the health care field deprecate VistA and cast doubt that it could ever be widely adopted. Having spent some time with people on both sides, I'll look at their arguments in this blog, and then summarize other talks I heard today at the Open Source Convention health care track. Yesterday, as I described in my previous blog, we heard an overview of trends in health care and its open source side in particular. Two open source free software projects offering electronic health records were presented, Tolven and openEMR. Today was VistA day, and those who stayed all the way through were entertained by accolades of increasing fervor from the heads of vxVistA, Medsphere, and ClearHealth. (Anyone who claims that VistA is cumbersome and obsolete will have to explain why it seems to back up so many successful companies.) In general, a nice theme to see today was so many open source companies making a go of it in the health care field. VistA: historical anomaly or the future of electronic medical systems?We started our exploration of VistA with a stirring overview by Phillip Longman, author of the popular paperback book, Best Care Anywhere: Why VA Health Care is Better Than Yours. The story of VistA's development is a true medical thriller, with scenes ranging from sudden firings to actual fires (arson). As several speakers stressed, the story is also about how the doctors at the VA independently developed the key aspects of open source development: programming by the users of the software, loose coordination of independent coders, freedom to fork, and so on. Longman is convinced that VistA could and should be the basis of universal health records in the U.S., and rains down omens of doom on the comprehensive health care bill if it drives physicians to buy proprietary health record systems. VistA is much more than an electronic health record system, and even bigger than a medical system. It is really a constellation of hundreds of applications, including food preparation, library administration, policing, and more. The two main objections to VistA are:
I wouldn't dare guess whether VistA will continue as a niche product or will suddenly emerge to eat up the U.S. market for electronic medical systems. But I think it's definitely something to watch. The odd position of the VA as the source for new versions of VistA, as well as its role as VistA's overwhelmingly largest user, could also introduce distortions into the open source development pattern outside the VA. For instance, commercial backers of VistA are determined to get it certified for meaningful use so that their clients can win financial rewards from the Department of Health and Human Services. But the VA doesn't have to be certified for meaningful use and doesn't care about it. (As David Uhlman of ClearHealth pointed out, nearly everything in the meaningful use criteria was done thirty years ago by the VA using VistA.) The VA even goes through periods of refusing bug fixes and improvements from the outside community. Luckily, the VA lets some of its programmers participate on WorldVistA forums, and seems interested in getting more involved. Other presentationsAttendance varies between 30 and 70 people for today's health care session. Roni Zeiger of Google brought out a big crowd for his discussion of Google's interest in health care, with a focus on how its API accepts data from devices. Zeiger pointed out that we lead most of our lives outside doctor's offices (unless we're very unlucky) and that health information should be drawn from everyday life as well. A wide range of devices can measure everything from how fast we walk to our glucose levels. Even if all you have is a smart phone, there are a lot of things you can record. Collecting this kind of data, called Observations of Daily Living, is becoming more and more popular.
You can set up Google Health to accept data from these devices. Ultimately, we can also feed the data automatically to our doctors, but first they'll need to set up systems to accept such information on a regular basis. Will Ross described a project to connect health care providers across a mostly rural county in California and exchange patient data. The consortium found that they had barely enough money to pay a proprietary vendor of Health Information Exchange systems, and no money for maintenance. So they contracted with Mirth Corporation to use an open source solution. Mirth supports CONNECT, which I described in href="http://radar.oreilly.com/2010/07/day-one-of-the-health-care-it.html">yesterday's blog, and provides tools for extracting data from structured documents as well as exchanging it. Nagesh Bashyam, Chief Architect for Harris Healthcare Solutions, which is the prime contractor for CONNECT, talked about how CONNECT can lead to more than data exchange--it can let a doctor combine information from many sources and therefore be a platform for value-added services. Turning to academic and non-profit research efforts, we also heard today from Andrew Hart of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and some colleagues at Children's Hospital Los Angeles. Hart described a reference architecture that has supported the sharing of research data among institutions on a number of large projects. The system has to be able to translate between formats seamlessly so that researchers can quickly query different sites for related data and combine it. Sam Faus of Sujansky & Associates recounted a project to create a Common Platform for sharing Observations of Daily Living between research projects. Sponsored by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation to tie together a number of other projects in the health care space, Sujansky started its work in late 2007 before there were systems such as Google Health and Microsoft Health Vault. Even after these services were opened, however, the foundation decided to continue and create its own platform. Currently, there are several emerging standards for ODL, measuring different things and organizing them in different ways. Faus said this is a reasonable state of affairs because we are so early in the patient-centered movement. I talked about standards later with David Riley, the government's CONNECT initiative lead. HHS can influence the adoption of standards through regulation. But Riley's office has adopted a distributed and participatory approach to finding new standards. Whenever they see a need, they can propose an area of standardization to HHS's specification advisory body. The body can prioritize these requests and conduct meetings to hammer out a standard. To actually enter a standard into a regulation, however, HHS has to follow the federal government's rule-making procedures, which require an eighteen-month period of releasing draft regulations and accepting comments. It's the odd trait of standards that discussions excite violent emotions among insiders while driving outsiders to desperate boredom. For participants in this evening's Birds of a Feather session, the hour passed quickly discussing standards. The 800-pound gorilla of health care standards is the HL7 series, which CONNECT supports. Zeiger said that Google (which currently supports just the CCR, a lighter-weight standard) will have to HL7's version of the continuity of care record, the CCD. HL7 standards have undergone massive changes over the decades, though, and are likely to change again quite soon. From what I hear, this is urgently necessary. In its current version, the HL7 committee layered a superficial XML syntax over ill-structured standards. A major problem with many health care standards, including HL7, is the business decision by standard-setting bodies to fund their activities by charging fees that put standards outside the reach of open source projects, as well as ordinary patients and consumers. Many standards bodies require $5.00 or $10.00 per seat. Brian Behlendorf discussed the recent decision of the NHIN Direct committee to support both SOAP versus SMTP for data exchange. Their goal was to create a common core that lets proponents of each system do essentially the same thing--authenticate health care providers and exchange data securely--while also leaving room for further development. |
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Comments: 15
Aaron [23 July 2010 04:09 AM]
InterSystems actually sells Cache', which is a direct descendant of MUMPS. Also MUMPS hasn't been the accepted name for years. It transitioned to "M" long ago. Same platform, with a less silly name.
Joseph Dal Molin [23 July 2010 04:30 PM]
Regarding the point about VistA and pharmacies: one of the enhancements that was developed for WorldVistA EHR in the CMS funded VistA Office project was enabling doctors to write prescriptions and fax them to any pharmacy. There is project well underway to enable e-prescribing, which is one of the "meaningful use" certification criteria.
Joseph
Fabian [24 July 2010 10:45 AM]
About open source HIS: Can Tolven and OpenEMR present just a single site with thousands of users ?
About IMPORTANT Vista vendors: ClearHealth who ?
About obsolete M: InterSystems Caché was chosen by the European Space Agency to support the scientific processing of its Gaia mission to chart a three dimensional map of the Milky Way galaxy. The mission launches in mid-2012 and conducts a census of all the stars in our galaxy. The mission is expected to discover hundreds of thousands of new objects.
Rob [25 July 2010 05:08 AM]
For such an obsolete language and database, M certainly seems to be capable of holding its own in the latest leading edge areas of cloud and mobile apps, eg:
http://www.mgateway.com/mdb.html (and click the iWD tab too)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXxzeue6Kco
...all using GT.M and open source to boot.
Ignacio Valdes [25 July 2010 02:22 PM]
Unfortunately missing from the article is Astronaut and its methods of unifying separate VistA's. -- IV
Chuck [25 July 2010 09:05 PM]
I would hope that people realize that most all of the people who have problems with VistA and/or MUMPS are its competitors. These people darn sure aren't going to praise either.
Most computer know the moment you make a choice and step off the hardware or software merry-go-round, you're "legacy" (the salesmen's term). For example, the newest movement in database is the ANTI-relational, the NoSQL movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NoSQL). And does anyone remember PERL? I would think/hope people would value/prefer a technology that can outlast it's 15 minutes.
And a little M trivia: not only is your hospital probably using MUMPS, but your bank just might be, too!
Dave [27 July 2010 01:25 PM]
So who, aside from the VA, is currently using Vista in a production setting?
Fred Trotter [27 July 2010 02:12 PM]
Aaron wrote :"InterSystems actually sells Cache', which is a direct descendant of MUMPS. Also MUMPS hasn't been the accepted name for years. It transitioned to "M" long ago. Same platform, with a less silly name."
What you mean by "accepted" is that Intersystems has not accepted it. Many in the community, who prefer not to allow a proprietary branding effort, which you are perpetuating, to define the community, are quite happy with the term MUMPS, which they view as an indication of the communities sense of humour and freedom.
Fabian wrote: "About open source HIS: Can Tolven and OpenEMR present just a single site with thousands of users ?
About IMPORTANT Vista vendors: ClearHealth who ?"
Both Tolven and OpenEMR have multiple sites with many thousands of patients. The notion that a site is important because it has many users is a hospital centric view of the world that is somewhat broken.
Ironically, ClearHealth has more patient records in its database than any Open Source vendor but the VA. They do not self-promote like Medsphere and DSS but they are probably one of, if not the, most important Open Source HIT vendors in the world. Just because you have not heard of them, does not make them unimportant.
Dave Wrote
"So who, aside from the VA, is currently using Vista in a production setting?"
Probably the largest and well-known example is Midland Memorial Hospital, which is a Medsphere OpenVistA shop. they have lots of public data available on that install, including quality measure improvements. Probably the largest site is the Jordan implementation. However, all of the VistA derivatives (vxVistA, Astronaut VistA, WebVistA) have at least one and often multiple sites up and running now. Contact the vendors for a list of references.
I believe we will surpass 100 sites using VistA in one form or another outside the VA this year, supported by at least five different vendors which is a pretty big deal.
You can rest assured that VistA outside the VA is picking up steam very rapidly.
-FT
Ben Mehling [27 July 2010 04:15 PM]
Fred- Jordan is not yet in production.
Dave-
Unfortunately some proponents and supporters of VistA-based derivatives do not provide information on installs, regardless of how important they are in the OS HIT world, so it's hard to estimate.
Some sites known to be in production...
- State Dept of Veteran's Affairs, Oaklahoma
- Midland Memorial Hospital, Texas
- Dept of Health, West Virginia (7 facilities)
- Community Health Network, West Virginia (RPMS)
- Memorial Hospital, Wyoming
- Blue Mountain, Utah
- Silver Hill, Connecticut
- Beauregard Hospital, Louisiana
I think you must also consider the federal Indian Health Services agency, running a derivative of VistA called RPMS. They are well above 200 sites in production.
Joseph Dal Molin [28 July 2010 01:11 AM]
I have to echo Ben's points and one of my personal pet peeves about some in the community not providing information that will help estimate the installed base. I also think that the US IHS RPMS system installs should be counted as code can be shared between the two systems and very similar in more ways than they are different. To add known WorldVistA EHR implementations to Ben's list:
Jordan in Pilot Phase:
Prince Hamza Hospital
King Hussein Cancer Center
Amman Comprehensive Clinic
Jordan Planned
43 Public Hospitals
Approx. 1,000 MoH Clinics
Mexico IMSS
Last time I spoke with IMSS they had 57 hospitals running... they don't use all of VistA's modules as they have some of their own ancillary packages. They implemented a FOIA version that was ported to Linux/GT.M by WorldVistA.
US Implementations by US companies (data is over 1 year old.. there were 12 additional initiatives underway)
Clinics 13
Hospitals 4
Bottom line is that the 100 implementation benchmark was passed sometime ago.
Joseph
Dave [30 July 2010 06:12 AM]
Guys,
What does this mean to the VistA effort? While I've read a lot of good things about the product, sounds like it needs a multi-billion dollar overhaul for some reason.
http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20100511/NEWS/100519989
Ben Mehling [30 July 2010 08:03 AM]
The IAC report was submitted to the VA several months ago. The report made several recommendations, one of which was an aggressive replacement program, another was for the VA to get more heavily involved in open source VistA.
I sat in a presentation with Roger Baker, CIO of the VA in June when he specifically addressed this report.
His answer was pretty clear -- he didn't feel that the report painted a accurate picture of the current status of the system, nor was the 'replacement' scenario realistic. He implied that the open source recommendation was well received, and that incremental modernization was a more likely scenario.
From my perspective, the VA's stance was clear commitment to VistA as it exists and they are also looking for a pragmatic approach to modernization.
Deanne Clark [ 5 August 2010 01:51 PM]
I agree with Fred that VistA in the world outside of the VA is taking off. vxVistA-OS and the vxVistA.org site have generated unexpected and exciting levels of interest since the official launch in January 2010. DSS offers both a FOSS and COSS model for open source deployment, so pinning down number of deployments is not possible but I agree with others that 2010 and 2011 could see over 100 implementations of VistA outside of VA.
I'd like to thank Andy Oram (and O'Reilly) for his support of Open Source in health care and his efforts to spread awareness of VistA and other OS HIT in the world.
DSS wanted to round out the feature set of vxVistA before it was offered and distributed widely as Open Source so that it could be used successfully in a non-VA health care setting to offer features like prescription generation, removal of many prominient VA-isms/VA references, and broaden functionality for OB/GYN and Pediatrics.
Our goal was to verify that vxVistA would work well to meet the needs of small ambulatory care clinics, large mixed specialty ambulatory care settings, and inpatient facilities before wide distribution. One of the things that stops some groups from using Open Source as a foundation is risk and fear of the unproven, and we wanted to take some of that risk/fear out of the equation before distribution and adoption.
Now it's time for vxVistA-OS to grow and demonstrate that an Open Source EHR based on VistA can meet health care IT needs today at a much lower cost of ownership than other proprietary EHRs without a sacrifice in quality.
--Deanne
Peter [ 8 August 2010 06:35 AM]
https://sites.google.com/site/cosihealthit/
There are many mature open source health IT solutions and long term collaborative projects worth looking at, many of which are listed in the link/web site above. Take a quick look. Collaboration and open source are the keys to the future of health IT and continued innovative solutions.
HenryL [20 January 2011 09:16 AM]
While it is encouraging that many facilities are considering this system can anyone comment on user experience, specifically with the pharmacy package. "Roll and Scroll" as they like to call it is a 25 year old user interface that appears counter-intuitive. Physician and nursing screens seem clear and easy to use, but the pharmacy package provides us a trip back to the 1980's. What impact has this implementation had on operating pharmacies?